Monday, October 25, 2010

Our Comments, Questions, & Issues with the Globe's Articles.

Here are some thoughts and feedback on the Boston Globe Article and the ‘Top 50 Salaries of MVRCS’. We are wondering if these figures are all inclusive (or do some employees receive two checks or additional funds for additional responsibilities and/or job titles). We also wonder if MVRCS finally released ALL of their payroll records as required by law or if this was the only way to make amends with the reporter and/or Globe. We question much of this information, specifically the payroll data and have commented as questions or issues appeared. The black portion is material taken directly from the articles and our comments and responses are in red.

Others in the top 50 earners were two relatives of Malden City Councilor Neil Kinnon, who serves as chairman of the school’s board of trustees, an unpaid position. Neil Kinnon’s brother Greg earned $53,656 in 2009 for his work as facilities manager and nurse. Kathy Kinnon, Neil Kinnon’s sister-in-law, earned $84,658 as special education director, an increase of about 9 percent over 2008, when she earned $77,187.
Sad that Greg apparently makes more than the facility guys that are always there. Would love to know what Greg does with his days. Greg Kinnon is a nurse? Licensed? How often does he fill in for one of the nurses, once a year? Is this salary inclusive of his ‘nurse’ position? Interesting how he is mentioned yet the lower school nurse who has been there for years isn’t mentioned here (AND his daughter was ‘selected’ yet the nurse’s son wasn’t. Interesting how that happened.
What exactly is Kathy Kinnon doing these days? She doesn’t attend meetings or return phone calls, it seems as Mrs. Libby has taken over the lion’s share of her responsibilities. She is the swim team secretary and her husband (who isn’t listed) is one of the coaches. Notice how he wasn’t mentioned anywhere in the ad? I thought the 2008 Annual Report mentioned 5% pay increases – must be different for her.

School officials said Kathy Kinnon’s salary for 2009 included a $1,000 “stay bonus,’’ similar to the pay raises mandated by general public schools in their stepladder approach to determining salaries; a one-time salary increase to ensure Kinnon’s compensation remained competitive with the charter school’s sending districts; and a $3,000 stipend for serving as administrative secretary to the school’s swim team.
A ‘stay bonus’ – cause she might leave??? The comment ‘similar to the pay raises mandated by general public schools in their stepladder approach to determining salaries’ – are all employees entitled to the same raises? It seems like some people made more in 2008 than in 2009. The individuals with her title in the sending districts have more students and work a hell of lot harder, you can be sure.
She is the swim team secretary and her husband (who isn’t listed) is one of the coaches. Notice how he wasn’t mentioned anywhere in the ad? I also wonder if she gets paid additional funds if she conducts a portion of the professional development to the staff.

As a matter of policy, the school director from time to time approves market adjustments to staff salaries to ensure the charter school remains competitive. The school also pays staff stay bonuses and stipends for coaching or overseeing other extracurricular activities, Veilleux said.
Staff bonuses = hush money for teachers to turn their heads to some of the less desirable behaviors (hence why the teachers are NOT permitted to ‘talk’ to parents, and now someone said something about them not being able to go to functions outside of school where students/parents will be.

Of the 328 Massachusetts school districts surveyed in fiscal 2008, only 12 paid their teachers an average salary that was lower than the average salary Mystic Valley paid its top-earning teachers in 2009. Malden’s public school system — not including the charter school — ranked 14th in the statewide report, with an average teacher salary of $73,547.
Only 12 paid their teachers less than these figures (again would love to see if what they gave to the Globe adds up to what they’ve reported to the IRS and/or DESE) because Neil Kinnon thinks that a monkey could teach children. Yet…(see below)

On average, the highest paid teachers at Mystic Valley had about six years of experience and earned $50,853 in 2009. In contrast, Malden teachers who have six years of experience and a bachelor’s degree earned $47,479; those with a master’s degree and the same level of experience earn $53,746.
More and more teachers are leaving every year. Anyone else notice the pattern that with few exceptions, only those ‘connected’ folks have any longevity in the school?
“So those teachers who are in high demand will be paid more,’’ he said. “We are never going to pay a gym teacher the same as a math or science teacher.’’
Really???? Does Neil Kinnon know HOW to tell the truth or what it is even?
Bauer Chris High School physical education teacher 5 $50,501 $50,245  - - 5 years
Giles Chris Elementary teacher 6 $48,625 $49,941 –Mr Giles is the PE teacher….
Rybarczyk Brad 7th & 8th grade science teacher 6 $46,380 $21,579  - 6 years
Shoutis Samuel High School math teacher 2 $48,075 $19,545*
Fields Matthew High School science teacher 2 $47,031 $21,123*
Mahoney Carol High School science teacher 8 $49,432 $52,045

“Over the years, the board of trustees has made significant adjustments to its salary structure in order to remain competitive, said Kinnon, a founding member of the school. (here) -As a result, the charter school has been able to attract and retain first-rate teachers, he said.
Again, REALLY? Does anyone else find the irony in this? Too many first rate teachers have come and are long gone. Yes, they attract many friends and family members of Neil Kinnons, and yes, they manage to retain all of THEM but not any teacher who refuses to play their games or believes in standing up for what they believe in. Is that why they have to spend 90,000.00 on recruitment (according to the financial report), because no other school has to spend that kind of money. Most schools receive too many resumes when they post for a job.

Mystic Valley’s MCAS scores are among the best in the state, and the school has a waiting list of more than 2,000 students; admission is by lottery.
We find MVRCS MCAS results to be inconsistent and cause for concern, especially for 2007, 2008, and 2009. We did copy this from another post found within the readers comment section on regarding MCAS scores (and while yes, Wakefield is a great community, many Wakefield parents chose the Charter school yet…):
If you look at the 10th grade scores for 2009, yes, MVRCS did better in ELA (ranked 16 versus Wakefield who ranked 85) but look at 1. The difference in the number of students (80 v. 219) and, 2. The math and science rankings for both schools of which Wakefield was superior. The question then becomes, can they sustain it AND do well with the same number of students as Wakefield.  For 2010 MCAS scores, MCAS did do better in ELA and Math (but not Science) as far as CPI scores go (rankings have not been published) but again, they have 1/3 of the students as Wakefield.
As an alternative, if you look at the CPI’s for 3rd grade for Wakefield in 2010 as a district and compared to individual scores schools, Wakefield ranks better both as a district and when comparing individual schools when compared to MVRCS. As for the 2009 rankings, the scores were comparable as MVRCS did slightly better in ELA and Wakefield did slightly better in Math. Plus, if you take into consideration the fact that the students at MVRCS go to school an entire year more (as a result of the extra 20 days per year and longer school day), I’m not sure the school is truly providing a superior education you believe they are.

Kinnon acknowledged that Mystic Valley has at times come under fire because there has been little turnover on the board of trustees. The state Department of Education has repeatedly questioned the trustees’ long tenure.
As we presented to Mr. Wulfson, Associate Commissioner at the DESE, while other schools are required as part of their renewal, no such conditions have been placed upon MVRCS (we are still unsure as to why this is). Additionally, we have received PLENTY of proof from parents that Mr. Wulfson is aware of the current issues going on at MVRCS yet refuses to do anything about it (it could possibly be that the school has taken to bullying them much as they bully parents who attempt to make them do the right things).

“Under state law, [the board of trustees] has three jobs — to remain true to the charter, to ensure the academic success of our students, and to maintain the school’s financial and operational viability,’’ said Kinnon. “The quickest way to be not true to the charter is to not have continuity. Since superintendents come and go, where do you get continuity? You’re able to get that through a long-serving board that has full understanding of the charter. This is what I have told the DOE every year they’ve come in and questioned it.’’
How does Neil Kinnon stay true to the Charter when he is also a City Councilor, who is he staying true to, the charter school or the city of Malden? How does he ensure the academic success of his Special Education students when he allows Kathy Kinnon and Chris Finn to tell parents who attempt to advocate for their children that ‘this is how we do it here’. Also, as Kathy Kinnon’s brother in law and childhood friend to Chris Finn, how unbiased are his decisions and actions when faced with a conflict. Again, who is he loyal to, his friend and family members or the charter school? Love the comment “to maintain the school’s financial and operational viability”, what by ensuring that you employ as many friends and family members as possible, paying them the highest you can, and requiring the least amount of work from them and unaccountable for little?

The quickest way to be not true to the charter is to not have continuity. Since superintendents come and go, where do you get continuity? You’re able to get that through a long-serving board that has full understanding of the charter. This is what I have told the DOE every year they’ve come in and questioned it.’’
No, the quickest way to not be true to the Charter is to allow your own personal agenda, ego, and sense of entitlement to rule the school. Funny, all other schools AND OUR COUNTRY manage to survive through various changes of the guard, yet MVRCS would fall apart without Neil Kinnon and the other board members? You are able to create a biased, self-serving, dictatorship through a long-serving board. As for the issue of having a full understanding of the charter, he still doesn’t appreciate or follow the laws and regulations that govern his actions (such as the Open Meeting laws and when they may go into Executive Sessions, not to mention numerous others). I’m sure many would agree that the school would survive without his greatness.
Instead, Mystic gets a facilities fee from the state; it was $893 per student for the 2009-2010 school year. One of three base categories paid to charter schools by the state, the fees added up to $1,206,350, in addition to $12,410,472 in student tuition and $210,339 for transportation.
If I understand my past conversations with Mr. Sullivan correctly, the transportation amount changes yearly. Also, let’s not forget they determine their per student expenditures regardless of what financial constraints or limitations are placed on the sending districts (they can have a higher per student cost than their sending districts who are limited by numerous outside influences). 

Name, position, years @ school, 2009 and 2008 (in the blurb above it did indicate that these were ‘totals’ for individuals.
Kinnon Kathy Special Education director 12 $84,658 $77,187  - We’re not sure what Kathy Kinnon does exactly to earn this salary. It seems as though she has shifted much of her job description to others, and it doesn’t seem as if she is even there much during the school day. We still question whether she did actually obtain her Masters as when listed in the ‘Top 20’ advertisement, it was from a college in NY (Russell College?) but would have been while she was employed at MVRCS (and we believe it was before they began to offer online degrees). Interesting.

McKinnon Gina Professional Development coordinator 13 $83,033 $83,779 – At least Mrs. McKinnon has created strong grade level teams. 

Chiccuarelli Anthony Human resources director 6 $82,960 $84,540 - more in 2008 than 2009? Also, Mr. Chiccuarelli is also listed as a Math teacher or coordinator yet I don’t recall seeing him the classroom anytime in the recent past. Is he compensated for that position, or title should we say?

Zajac Jeffrey Math Dept. chair 5 $82,383 $84,625  - What’s wrong with this picture? The Math chair has been there less time than both the Science and English Chair, yet is making over $10,000.00 more? Dan Alex is often a fill-in for Chris Finn yet he is being paid less than other department chairs? Really?
Swible-Keane Catherine Science Dept. chair 12 $68,633 $73,447

Dan Alex English Dept. chair 8 $66,215 $63,237

Bradford Maureen High School Librarian 8 $69,115 $70,821 – Are the Bradford’s connected to someone at the school as both work there and have for a number of years.

D'Angelo Rick IT Supervisor 6 $68,877 $70,172  - more in 2008 than 2009? Didn’t he leave in 2009?

Swible-Keane Catherine Science Dept. chair 12 $68,633 $73,447 - - more in 2008 than 2009? Funny that the HR Director (yet they also outsource a portion of the HR responsibilities) makes more than a Science Department chair?

Mullen Jennifer Professional Development Coordiantor 12 $60,214 $57,808  - Mrs. Mullen makes less than some of the teachers? We know she usually works less hours than most but paid less? Is she too compensated for ‘Professional Development’ training sessions that would normally fall within her position/title. We know one thing about Mrs. Mullen, as the person responsible for grades 4th -6th or 8th, interviewing or hiring isn’t one of her strengths. The majority of the teacher turnover (at least in the lower school) is within her grade levels. We have heard that Mrs. Mullen & Mrs. McKinnon are only still there as Neil Kinnon protects their positions while other individuals question the need for them.

Courtney Judith Elementary teacher 13 $58,738 $66,785 - more in 2008 than 2009? More than Mrs. Mullen? Doubt it….

Guerriero Diane Elementary teacher 13 $56,263 $65,308- more in 2008 than 2009? More than Mrs. Mullen? Doubt it….
Wood Dawn High School Special Education teacher 7 $56,257 $52,691 - more in 2008 than 2009?

Gregory Nicole Elementary teacher 8 $55,814 $60,299 - more in 2008 than 2009? More than Courtney & Guerriero yet not there as long? She was/is a lead teacher but so is Ms. Courtney.

Dado Roy Assistant director 3 $54,732 $98,304 –A LOT more in 2008 than 2009? What happened here? Did Mr. Dado leave mid-year last year? Was he replaced by Mr. Benzie or did the Board choose a new golden child?
Benzie George Assistant director - High School 2 $98,318 $38,500*

Duvert Ingrid Special Education teacher 9 $53,037 $55,588 - more in 2008 than 2009?

Gately Marty Public Relations 2 $52,729 $50,500 - more in 2008 than 2009? This one too we are questioning as he wasn’t mentioned in the ‘Top 20’ advertisement and we find this number hard to believe. We also wonder if Mr. Gately isn’t working on Neil Kinnon’s campaign and/or assisting him in his City Councilor role at the expense of MVRCS. Funny that few (if any) other schools require a PR person, not sure if it is as a result of the shady actions of MVRCS or that Mr. Gately was in need of a new job.

Kinnon Greg Facilities Manager/Nurse 6 $51,791 $53,656  - more in 2008 than 2009? This one upsets us as the other Facility employees are seen around the facilities working more often than Greg yet they are not listed here (with the exception of Bob). We’d be interested in knowing exactly what hours and job responsibilities are for Greg Kinnon.

Tapia Stephanie Elementary Special Education teacher 8 $51,450 $51,421** - Didn’t she have a baby in 2009? Did she not take any time off or does MVRCS have paid maternity leave for all of their employees?

Walton Matthew 7th & 8th Grade history teacher 6 $51,268 $53,456

Ferrara Danielle Office manager 3 $51,166 $50,592 Neil Kinnon claims to not pay a PE teacher more than or the same as a Science or Math teacher yet an Office Manager is paid more? Doesn’t she have a connection to the Kinnon family?
Upton Dawn Elementary Special Education teacher 10 $49,602 $55,945 - more in 2008 than 2009?

Mahoney Carol High School science teacher 8 $49,432 $52,045 – But we thought Neil said “We are never going to pay a gym teacher the same as a math or science teacher.’’
                Bauer Chris High School physical education teacher 5 $50,501 $50,245  - - 5 years compared to Ms. Mahoney’s 8 years….
Giles Chris Elementary teacher 6 $48,625 $49,941 –Mr Giles is the PE teacher – 6 years compared to Ms. Mahoney’s 8 years.

These numbers MUST be wrong, they did not ALL make 21,579.00 in 2008. Oh, this must be where that handwritten record issue will be used to explain this information away!
Baglio John Elementary teacher 12 $46,351 $21,579 – The fact that John Baglio is making more (and doing a whole lot less) than classroom teachers (especially lead teachers) is very upsetting and a clear example of the inequalities or preferential treatment being practiced at MVRCS. We believe he is only there as a result of his connections and not as a result of his performance.

Gilliam Sarah Elementary teacher 4 $45,746 $21,579 –Sad that a classroom teacher is being paid almost the same as a Facilities supervisor & also Greg Kinnon (we mean no harm to Robert Kravitz, just an observation).

Kravitz Robert Facilities supervisor 3 $45,724 $21,579  -– These numbers are wrong…

Reed Michael High School history teacher 2 $45,507 $21,579  - – These numbers are wrong…Even sadder that both Greg Kinnon and Robert Kravitz are making more than a HS History teacher.

Cahill Katherine Elementary teacher 3 $45,431 $21,579 – These numbers are wrong…

Ashton Sonja Elementary teacher 6 $45,370 $21,579 – These numbers are wrong…

Murphy Joanne High School Spanish teacher 4 $45,051 $21,579– These numbers are wrong…

Giles Chris Elementary teacher 6 $48,625 $49,941 – This PE teacher is making more than lead classroom teachers??


  1. You normally have great sources. Check your sources as to why teachers made more in 2008 they should know. These salary numbers may include money for coaching, MCAS prep etc. which I would guess is why some of the teachers you are calling out may be making more especially the gym teachers who coach sports.

  2. You do realize that not checking your sources puts you in the same league as the National Enquirer? Keep up the lazy work!

    By the way, you do realize that by blocking one particular IP you have managed to block at least 300 additional IP's that I know of. You may want to think about that. Is a few comments you don't agree with worth not allowing those other 299 people from viewing?

  3. We do try to confirm our information but with payroll and review information, the school is insane about not allowing any discussion. Also, some times we put it out there looking for clarification or for someone to confirm or deny our information.
    That being said, for this subject matter it is tough to confirm/deny information. One teacher did tell us that the numbers in the Top 20 list were not accurate. Also, as for the PE teacher and math/science teachers salary, they do have the opportunity to pick up different things they can do to add to their income, such as coaching and MCAS tutoring, and the like. If my sources are correct, in the 2008-2009 administration did most of the the MCAS prep classes (to make sure the students did well).
    Our point on the last portion of the list was that they didn't ALL make 21,579.00 that year, as some of them are teachers. We're not sure if the information was put in incorrectly or if MVRCS reported the information incorrectly.
    And finally, thank you for the heads up as to the blocked individual. We have removed all blocks and if issues arise again, we'll change companies. Just FYI, it wasn't that we didn't like what they had to say, it was that they were being rude, inappropriate, and harassing. We'll give them another chance and hopefully they've calmed down a bit.

  4. The atmosphere and morale at MVRCS is so low it's a wonder education is really being accomplished. It's troubling when a moron custodian makes the sum of money KRAVITZ makes (not earns) for continually belittleing his minions, a true dolt. The pay scale at MVRCS is unjustifiable and wrong. If you're not connected to KINNON, while at MVRCS, you are in the wrong profession. Any type of information which is required by the DOE will never be forthcoming from MVRCS because they are scared to show their ineptness and lose their cushy positions. MVRCS is now showing their stripes with all this "ugly" publicity because they can't possibly sweep everything they've created under the "proverbial rug". You reap what you sow.

  5. Another fool enters the conversation. Welcome my ignorant friend!

  6. So I've been at my job for 10 + years and lets say I start at $29,000 a year, after 10 years I might be at around $ 37,000, person b starts 2 years ago with a starting salary of $ 35,000. With 2 years of incentives and raises they are now at $39,000. Just because you have seniority doesn't mean you will make more than the way.. Oh great OZ, the last time I made a comment you seemed to have thought that I was your "scripture quoting friend" I will tell you, verses from the bible will never cross my lips, so you may want to check your IP checker.... to quote the meerkat Timon, "Boy lady, Have you got your lions crossed!"

  7. Mr PR guy himself (aka MVCSparent) is at it again. Any time some one says something against the charter school he has it removed. Unfortunately, it wasn't copied to be posted here but spoke of the horrible working conditions at MVRCS. The poster had worked there for 8 years and Mr. PR guy questioned why. Here are some ideas as to why:
    The powers that be are at it again, had MVAwful's comments removed. As for the response by MVRCParent (who is a Kinnon friend and school employee), they stayed for the kids, because they were probably not yet truly certified (but good at what they did), and/or because it wasn't ALWAYS bad. Unfortunately, as too many of the teachers there now will tell you, it is an AWFUL place to work!

  8. You know you haven't had one of these moments in a while. This is a classic MV rant. I do recall seeing that post. Did she have a someone's name in it? That was a bad habit you had for a while. I have to admit it does sting to have your posts taken down.

    How do you know what it's like to work there? I was there this morning and doubt your smiling face was even in the same area code. Everyone seems happy enough. Maybe they're all acting. That can be their next profession when they close the place down.

    I think you have MVCSparent all wrong. If I had to guess I would say she was the woman that was ready to punch you guys out at the Sept. meeting. It's only a guess though so don't quote me on that.

    You should send me a personal FB request or stop by my house sometime. I'm not such an asshole in person. I swear!

  9. Andrew -
    I don't recall a name being mentioned but removes without really checking why the comment was reported. I'm sure one of the powers that be reported it just because they didn't like what was being said. If they knew who it was, they'd probably sue them. Not kidding.
    As for the morale and/or 'smiling' staff at MVRCS - they are all miserable (with the exception of those 'konnected' folks). I hear this week their emotions are running high from the article. Some folks on there deserve what they are getting (if not more) but others are such a joke and some other folks that should be there, aren't.
    No, MVCSParent I believe is the school's PR guy, he always has those little quotes too readily available. Besides, it's not like he has anything else to do all day except troll discussion boards and push the propaganda. Kind of like you....? j/k...
    What did the woman at the Sept meeting look like?
    I know you are not an a@s$ole in person but figure you must be Konnected somehow (especially considering your business), I just can't figure out how. Besides, I know all too well the 'stages' that parents at MVRCS go through. If you truly are not konnected, you'll come around someday.

  10. Hmm you commented on everyone except Matt Walton why is that? This post will probably dissappear. Funny you have 27,000 page views and less than 100 votes, probably five people. That is a heck of a percentage of happy people almost 100%. Don't worry I've got the print screen and will mail it to the DOE to show them what a piece of work you are with too much time on your hands. Once again this site is being run by an angry person just looking to kill MVRCS. Sad so Sad that some good people will be fooled into following this. I hope they figure out who you are and do sue you.

  11. Most of the voters even chose honesty and integrity. You can't even fix your own election

  12. They also left the AD, Peter Connolly out of their cheeky commentary. In addition to his pay he lives in a half million dollar MV owned house. Free rent? or part of unrecorded salary? It's a big house for a single person. Maybe he is related to the bloggers?

  13. Anonymous 7:23am: It's too bad the admin of the school won't choose honesty and integrity. To have Gately as the Public Relations Director is an embarrassment and a spit in the face of all the honest and ethical students, parents and teachers of the school. This administration has brought way too much attention to their misdeeds than any honors the students can earn. It is a black eye to all of them.

    As you all know, it is not easy to be a "charter school" family as many people have opinions against the concept. This administration has made it so much more difficult to defend their unlawful, unethical and just plain wrong actions. An unpaid board or wonderful MCAS scores cannot whitewash these actions. It is time to clean house and replace this board. Long overdue. Do not accept any more lipservice. Take our school back and make it into the world class educational jewel it is meant to be.

  14. To Anonymous @ October 27 12:17AM
    First off, Matt Walton wasn't commented on as it's hard to say anything about a teacher who has been at the school the same amount of time as Greg Kinnon, works harder (or should we just say 'works' which we don't believe Greg does) AND MAKES LESS MONEY THAN A FACILITIES MANAGER (who does NOTHING) and NURSE (funny, last I checked the school had nurses and they were all female, filling in once per year doesn't cut it). Hmmm, wonder what the education difference is? What about working hours (and we mean actually working, NOT hanging out at the Business Office, his house, or parents house). Wonder what Bob, Mike and Jinagn (spelling) think about Gregs cushy position and inflated pay?
    Thanks for making our point for us!

  15. Again to Anonymous @ Oct 27 @ 12:17AM
    Regarding your comment
    "Funny you have 27,000 page views and less than 100 votes, probably five people. That is a heck of a percentage of happy people almost 100%. Don't worry I've got the print screen and will mail it to the DOE...."
    Please make sure you do and make sure you point out the fact that the 27,000 pages views and 7,600 visitors have all read our questions and concerns that we have also posted to them. Some of us want to know why one charter school is held to very different (and lower)standards than others? Make sure you also tell them that various media have also been checking out this site and may be contacting them to ask them some hard questions. Thank you for taking care of this for us.

  16. Of the 144 people who chose to answer, yes 73 said honesty and integrity and 62 either knew or questioned the lottery. The interesting part is that only 66 people answered the 2nd question (regarding the school needing change).
    Also, we know that only a small number of individuals actually represent the 73 that voted for honesty and integrity and they voted repeatedly.
    Based on all of that, of the 73 votes we believe their were actually only 7 unique voters (73-66) and that a couple of other individuals voted repeatedly (but only on THAT question) to 'fix' the results. Unlike other individuals, we didn't try to 'fix' our lottery, oops I mean survey.

  17. To October 28th, 9:28AM
    We left off Peter Connolly as we didn't see anything questionable for an Athletic Director making 53,682.00 a year. We didn't take into consideration the house that he is living in (although we also didn't think he lived alone as we thought he had a wife and child(ren)?). If our memory serves us correctly, he moved here from CT to accept the position...? We did hear recently that he has a nephew in the school so maybe his position and pay IS as a result of a Konnection? Hmmm, something to look into further. The pay increase was because (we believe) he was hired in 2008 so would have only worked a portion of the year. If we are incorrect, please correct us.

    Connolly Peter Athletic director 2 $53,682 $28,500

  18. Thank God we have you around to poke through peoples personal lives. The gestapo would be proud!